Chappell: And I remember
during that time ya’ll were
trying to regain the titles,
ya’ll physically took the belts
from Steamboat and Youngblood!
Kernodle: Yeah…we stole
the belts! We stole ‘em from
‘em…we took ‘em away from ‘em!
Jumped ‘em, took ‘em away from
‘em!
Chappell/Bourne:
(laughing)
Kernodle: And one time we
lost one of those “Losers Can
Never Wrestle As A Team In That
Town Again,” but we came back
and wrestled there again! All
you had to do was get Steamboat
and Youngblood to say, “Look, we
want to wrestle them again!
PLEASE, lift the sanctions!
PLEASE Mr. Crockett, we’ll do
ANYTHING! We’ll give up a year’s
salary…we WANT to wrestle them
again!”
Chappell/Bourne:
(laughing)
Kernodle: So Crockett
said, “Okay, we’ll lift the
sanctions.” You can do anything
in professional wrestling!
That was all our idea, too. The
guys that were wrestling us back
then had it made…all they had to
do was show up. We came up with
all the finishes.
Chappell: And at the time
of these returns, wasn’t Sarge
leaving for the WWF?
Kernodle: Yeah…we both
left. I tell you when we left.
When that program was winding
down we went into the office and
asked Crockett who we would
wrestle if we stayed, and we
just never got an answer that
satisfied us. So Sarge and I
said, “Looks like we’re going to
New York!”
Chappell: How was it with
the WWF?
Kernodle: I went to New
York, and did really, really
well money-wise. I was in the
mid-card. I was wrestling Tito
Santana again, and stuff like
that. I was making really good
money.
Chappell: How was Vince
McMahon to deal with?
Kernodle: Vince told us
in 1983 that he was going
national. He told Sarge and I,
because we’d go out and eat
dinner with him after TV.
He said, “Here’s what I’m gonna
do…I’m gonna put everybody else
out of business.”
Chappell: Did you think
he could pull it off?
Kernodle: I thought it
probably wasn’t gonna happen.
But he was serious. He said,
“I’m gonna put everybody out of
business, and I’m going
WORLD-WIDE with wrestling.”
Well, Vince has done even more
and is even bigger than anyone
ever imagined.
Chappell: I think that’s
a fair statement.
Kernodle: (laughing) Even
though he sold RAW to Donald
Trump the other night!
Chappell/Bourne:
(laughing)
Kernodle: But that’s when
I came up with the idea of
Nikita Koloff…
Chappell:
When you were still in New
York?
Kernodle: Yeah, as I was
finishing up.
Chappell: I remember you
coming back to the Mid-Atlantic
area at the tail end of 1983.
And soon after that, you were
back on top here as one half of
the World Tag Team Champions
with Bob Orton, Jr. But that
pairing didn’t last very long at
all.
Kernodle: Yeah…that
didn’t work out that well, and
it didn’t last long. Orton was
hurt, as I recall. And I like
Orton. It just didn’t work out,
so we went a different avenue.
It was sort of preparation for
Ivan and I.
Chappell: That’s
right…then you and Ivan Koloff
got together, and that DID work
out!
Kernodle: We came back
with Ivan and I…
Chappell:
And the rest is history!
You all had some good opponents.
I remember Wahoo McDaniel and
Mark Youngblood…
Kernodle: Yeah…and then
Jay and Mark Youngblood.
Chappell: And towards the
end of that, I remember Jay
painting his face, and calling
himself the “Renegade.” By that
time, Nikita Koloff was on the
scene.
Kernodle: Oh yeah…Nikita!
See, that was all my idea. And
you were talking awhile ago
about having heat being with
Sarge. But when I teamed up with
the Russians and did that…now
that was SOME heat! That’s when
the heat REALLY got hot!
Chappell: I can only
imagine!
Kernodle: An American
turning on his damn country.
Well, you know guys, I never
really turned on the country. I
just said, ‘What do you get when
you get the greatest American
wrestler and the greatest
Russian wrestler and you team
them up? You get the World Tag
Team Champions!’
Chappell: I remember you
using that line a lot!
Kernodle: I did accept
the flag, and Ivan accepted
mine…but I didn’t turn on the
country.
And Nikita was my idea, as I
said before.
Chappell: How did Nikita
come into being? I remember when
he first came in during the
summer of 1984, he looked like
the biggest monster in the
history of wrestling!
Kernodle: I knew that
Russia was probably not going to
participate in the 1984 summer
Olympics, because of the way
things were looking. So, I came
up the idea that Nikita was an
Olympic lifter and a wrestler!
Chappell: Where was
Nikita found?
Kernodle: I found him! I
went to Joe Laurinaitis of the
Road Warriors and told him I was
looking for a guy that looks
like ya’ll, big as hell, that
wouldn’t mind shaving his head
to portray a Russian.
Joey said he knew the perfect
guy…Scott Simpson. Three days
later we had him here. When
Nikita walked into the office,
he already had his head shaved
and everything. See, I wouldn’t
have shaved my head…if I had
three hairs up there, you
weren’t shaving my head!
Chappell:
(laughing) That’s right…you
were the only one on the Russian
team that had any hair!
Kernodle: I didn’t think
anybody would want to shave
their head!
Bourne: (laughing) You
probably hated doing the
“Private” thing right, because
you had to get your hair cut for
that!
Kernodle: (laughing)
Yeah…and my beard! I had to cut
my beard, too! But then Crockett
came in and told me that he
wanted me to start being Don
Kernodle again. So I could have
my beard and do what I wanted
to…after the World Championship
program.
But, yeah, Nikita walked in and
he looked like he could kick the
crap out of anybody…
Chappell: Oh yeah…he was
ominous looking.
Kernodle: He really fit
the part. We were in Dorton
Arena. I don’t know if ya’ll
remember when they first started
doing those big TVs from Dorton
Arena…
Chappell: Oh
yeah…definitely. Dorton looked
really cool on TV, with those
windows in the background.
Kernodle: We had Nikita
up there for the first time.
Nikita had never been on a
wrestling mat before…even an
amateur wrestling mat. He’d
NEVER been in the ring!
We got up there and we did our
interview, and we just had him
stand up there holding the
chain! We did all the talking. I
remember that night so well
because I was sick with a high
fever…
Chappell: Did Ivan Koloff
factor in on any of the planning
for Nikita? Because of course,
Nikita was billed as Ivan’s
nephew.
Kernodle: Ivan didn’t
have anything to do with that.
That was all my idea. I just
asked Ivan if he’d go along with
it.
Chappell: So, did Nikita
wrestle that night?
Kernodle: We get done
with the interview, and go back
to the dressing room. I was
always messing around in the
dressing room…looking at Playboy
magazines and stuff like that,
while the other guys were
working out! I was talking and
having a good time!
Chappell/Bourne:
(laughing)
Kernodle: So, Nikita
comes over to me in the dressing
room and says, “You know I got a
match in a few minutes, don’t
you? I’ve never been on an
amateur wrestling mat or in a
wrestling ring…nothing! Ever!” I
said, ‘Unbelievable!!’
So I said, ‘Come here!’ You
know, we wanted to build him
into a powerhouse. We wanted him
to be a powerhouse, because the
plan was that they were gonna
turn on me, and Sarge was gonna
come back from the WWF!
Chappell: Man, that would
have been off the charts!
Kernodle: I was gonna do
a shoot interview on the
telephone and say, ‘Sarge, I
should have listened to you and
not trusted those
Russians…they’ve done turned on
me and beat the hell out of me.
And here I am in the hospital! I
need you…I need you to come
back. We’ve got to get that
American flag back!’
Bourne: You did something
like that, didn’t you? Wasn’t
Sarge brought back, and it was
you and Magnum [T.A.]?
Chappell: That was in
March of 1985 in Greensboro. A
one match deal if I remember.
Don, Sarge and Magnum again
Ivan, Nikita and Krusher
Kruschev, who had just come in.
Kernodle: That wasn’t
gonna be a one time deal, that
was gonna be the whole damn
cake. But everything got
changed….what can you do?
But anyway, Nikita came up to me
when we were in the dressing
room at Dorton for that TV
taping. See, we wanted Nikita to
be a powerhouse. A
super-power…just like Russia. We
wanted a big guy like him to
match up with Sarge, and me and
Ivan matched up pretty well size
wise.
Chappell: That first
night, did you give young Nikita
some wrestling pointers?
Kernodle: Yeah…I locked
up with him and told him to just
bend the guy down, and hit him
on the back with some forearms
about three or four times. Then
grab him by the left arm, shoot
him in the ropes and when he
comes off put the bear hug on
him.
Chappell: (laughs)
Yeah…that pretty much sums up a
Nikita Koloff match!
Kernodle: He had never
been in the ring…and he got an
11 second win! We wanted it to
be fast…
Bourne: The monster going
over quick.
Kernodle: See, Jimmy
Crockett gave me and Sarge the
book before Dusty came in…
Chappell: Really? I had
no idea…
Kernodle: Yeah…we already
had the price and everything. We
were gonna be the bookers. If we
could have stayed the bookers
like we thought, we could have
controlled the thing with the
Russians…it would have done
phenomenal. Who knows, Jim
Crockett Promotions might still
be in business. Or maybe not.
Vince [McMahon] may have put
them out of business anyway.
I remember the day Dusty Rhodes
came into the office…we were
doing interviews. I thought he
was just coming through to do a
shot, like he’d do once in
awhile. Then Jim Crockett said,
“[Dusty] is my new booker.”
Chappell: Ouch!
Kernodle: I’m thinking,
what did he just say?
How that happened, I’ll never
know. So, that deal with Nikita
and Ivan was changed…
Chappell: That’s for
sure…Sarge didn’t come in!
Kernodle: What can you
do…we had a new boss. Crockett
used to listen to me, and to
Sarge. We made him a lot of
money, and we had his
confidence, so we could do a lot
of things
But then Dusty came in and got
his confidence. I’d go to
Crockett later with ideas, and
it was completely different. It
didn’t work. But I don’t have
any ill feeling about it.
Chappell: Around that
time, as a fan, you started
seeing Dusty on TV a lot, and
all those guys from Florida that
were down there with him.
Kernodle: I’m the one
that got changed, but [the
Russians] kept on going. And
Nikita was one of the best
powerhouse babyfaces in the
business.
He got over good. Nikita made a
lot of money, quick.
Kernodle: And also, I was
going to bring my brother [Rocky
Kernodle] along…and get him on
top in wrestling. Which he did
wrestle in Starrcade [84] with
Ole, remember?
Chappell: That’s right.
But Rocky probably didn’t get
near the push that he would have
gotten if you and Slaughter were
doing the booking.
Kernodle: If me and Sarge
were booking, we were gonna let
Flair and Steamboat wrestle most
of the time, with Flair being
the World Champion. And us
wrestle as a tag team…and with
the Russians, we were gonna have
a hell of a deal. It would have
made millions of dollars.
Chappell: Gotta wonder
“what if.” But then, of course,
Dusty brought in a lot of his
guys from Florida and the focus
changed.
Kernodle: And then later
he brought Magnum in, and the
Rock and Roll Express in.
I guess the way it ended up, we
basically got the Russians over
for them.
That’s basically what it was.
Chappell: That’s what
happened, no doubt.
Kernodle: My biggest
mistake, was when I wanted to
turn babyface, I should have
stayed with the Russians.
That thing with the Russians
could have been the hottest
thing…EVER! You notice any heat
on any Russian wrestlers lately?
That got changed, and Russian
wrestlers haven’t been the same
since.
Chappell: Yes, that’s
true, and I guess hindsight is
20/20. But certainly your
momentum was cut when Dusty came
in and changed things.
And when the Russians turned on
you in October of 1984 and you
became the “Pride Of The USA”
babyface, you had Dusty and
later Magnum that were more of
the focus on the good guy side.
Kernodle: You know when
Dory Funk, Jr. was still the
booker, I talked to him about
the things Sarge and I was
planning. Dory thought it was
gonna be great, because I could
wrestle.
Jim Crockett told me one time
that I was one of the greatest
wrestling heels in the business.
You know, because I could do a
lot of wrestling…not a bunch of
cheap heat, you know?
Chappell: You were pretty
good on the mic as a heel too,
Don!
Kernodle: I could talk,
you’re right! Back when we were
doing interviews, like I told
you, you might have a minute or
a minute and a half. And Flair
as the World Champion would take
a lot of that time.
That’s why I would hardly ever
say anything, because Sergeant
Slaughter was the boss of the
team. The Sergeant is the boss
when you go into the battle, so
I’d let him talk the most
because he was the boss. It made
the most sense.
Bourne: One of the
favorite things you did with
Sarge, when ya’ll were doing
promos with the belts, you’d
hold that tag belt and you’d
look at it…polish it, kiss it,
point at it. You really put that
belt over!
Kernodle: Yeah, Dick, you
had to make people believe that
that belt meant a lot to you. In
our business that’s it…that’s
the pot of gold.
I always tried to make people
believe that I’d do anything for
that belt. If I had to kill
somebody to keep that belt…I’d
do it!
Chappell: Now, when you
turned babyface after the
Russians attacked you in October
of 1984, you of course didn’t
have Sarge with you like you
hoped, but the “Pride Of The
USA” angle as a single still did
well, didn’t it?
Kernodle: Some people
said it didn’t get over, but it
did. We did $45,000 in
Asheville, North Carolina on a
Sunday at 2:00 in the afternoon.
That had never been done. Weaver
used to laugh and say, “$45,000
in Asheville at 2:00 and it
didn’t get over???”
Chappell/Bourne:
(laughing)
Kernodle: But that had
never been done! That was over
TWICE what had been done in
Asheville before. We sold out
Fayetteville, North Carolina…we
sold out a lot of places. It got
over, believe me.
But if the Pride Of The USA
thing had gone like me and Sarge
planned it, I could have been a
mega superstar, and made a lot
more money…
Bourne: Right, because TV
had started going so
nationwide…ya’ll were on the
Superstation [TBS] at that
point.
Kernodle: It was a big
thing, but it could have been a
much bigger thing.
Chappell: Were you doing
single matches against Nikita
then?
Kernodle: I was wrestling
against Ivan and Nikita…both of
them.
By Christmas day in 1984, I was
wrestling Nikita in Greenville,
South Carolina in the
afternoon…and that night I
wrestled Ivan in Charlotte!
Chappell: You had some
great “Flag Matches” during that
time.
And around that time, weren’t
you teaming up with some big
names?
Kernodle: Oh yeah…teamed
up a lot with Steamboat. And
later with Dick Slater, Magnum
and the Rock and Roll Express.
Chappell: After those
great battles with Ricky
Steamboat in 1983, I remember
how unusual it was to see ya’ll
tagged up at the end of 1984!
Kernodle: And see, I was
gonna bring my brother along and
get him up, and have a
legitimate brother and brother
World Tag Team Championship
team…
Chappell: I remember you
and Rocky teaming around this
time. And of course, some people
might remember your brother
Rocky Kernodle as “Keith
Larson,” who had wrestled
underneath in the Mid-Atlantic
area for a couple of years prior
to this.
And your brother’s real name is
Wally Kernodle.
Kernodle: That got going
a little bit, and then it all
got switched…it got changed.
Chappell: But Rocky did
get put on Starrcade ‘84 like we
mentioned a while ago…and he had
a good match.
Kernodle: That was my
idea. Dusty said I shouldn’t
wrestle that soon after the
Russians attacked me…it wouldn’t
look like I was really hurt if I
came back and wrestled so fast.
He asked me who I’d like to
wrestle with my brother, and I
said, ‘Ole…he’d be perfect!’
Because he broke me in the
business…
Chappell: I was gonna
say, that kind of completes the
circle!
Kernodle: I got Ole to
wrestle…and it was a hell of a
match. I don’t know if ya’ll
remember that or not?
Chappell: Absolutely…I
thought your brother did great.
And that was definitely the
first time he was on a big stage
like that.
Kernodle: (laughs) You
remember I broke the crutches
over the Russians? That was
great, man!
Chappell: Around that
time, wasn’t there an angle with
your Mom? Wasn’t she involved?
Kernodle: When I got hurt
that time, when the Russians
turned on me and per se hurt me,
I got my Daddy to come out of
the top of the Coliseum to come
down to the ring. Yeah, I got
them to come down to the ring.
I told them ahead of time that I
wouldn’t really be hurt, but I
told them to come down to the
ring.
Chappell: I thought that
got over well.
Kernodle: I went to the
hospital that night. I wasn’t
hurt…I didn’t even have a
hangnail!
Chappell/Bourne:
(laughing)
Kernodle: You know, some
woman jumped up in the ring. She
was a nurse, like from Atlanta…
Chappell/Bourne:
(laughing)
Kernodle: She wasn’t
supposed to do it! She got up in
there, and she told the
ambulance guys that I was
unconscious.
I wasn’t unconscious…I was just
acting!
Chappell: That just goes
to show how believable ya’ll
were back then.
Kernodle: Well, hell,
when they think you’re
unconscious they keep you
overnight at the hospital. So
they made me stay over!
Chappell/Bourne:
(laughing)
Kernodle: (laughs) I’m
laying on one of those metal
tables, sweating and cold as
hell! I’m listening to all this
stuff going on…they’re pumping
somebody’s stomach over there…
Chappell/Bourne:
(laughing)
Kernodle: Then the doctor
comes over to me and says,
“We’ve got to keep you overnight
because the nurse says you were
unconscious.” Well…I wasn’t
unconscious!
Chappell: (laughs) You
can never be too careful about
these things, Don!
Kernodle: I was starving
to death…couldn’t get anything
to eat! When Mom and Daddy came
and got me the next day, hell, I
went over to this cafeteria and
ate like a SOB!
Chappell/Bourne:
(laughing)
Kernodle: But they were
the good old days, brother.
Chappell: And after that,
you were the good guy “Pride Of
The USA” for quite awhile, and
you had the red, white and blue
headband.
Kernodle: That was my
idea to do that, all along. But
it ended up getting changed
quite a bit. But as I said
earlier, it was still
successful.
You remember when Manny
[Fernandez] started wearing the
headband, and all that stuff?
Chappell: That’s right.
And things were really starting
to change around that time. The
Mid-Atlantic area was starting
to merge with the NWA, and was
less and less a distinct
territory.
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