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Chappell: But Ric really
lived the life he portrayed on TV?
Landrum: (laughs) Oh yes! I
often worried, that he had fallen
so much into it, that he was
believing everything. And it got a
little scary there for a while.
Chappell: What kind of
establishments did Ric typically
hit?
Landrum: It was always some
place that was fairly well
crowded…a good watering hole. A
nice nightclub.
And sometime during the evening,
somebody was going to make the
comment, ‘Hey, the World’s
Heavyweight Champion is here with
us tonight!’ Of course he liked
that, and I didn’t blame him a
bit.
Chappell: Surely.
Landrum: (laughs) My wife
and I went out with Ric one time.
I remember asking her, ‘You SURE
you want to do this?’ She said,
‘Yeah…I want to see what you guys
do.’ I said, ‘Oooooookay.’
That was the only time I ever saw
my wife get drunk! And I really
wasn’t sure she was until we got
home…and then I knew it. She
decided she was going to show me
she knew how to wrestle, and she
was wailing away on me.
I finally went, ‘Hold it here…I’m
not taking you anywhere anymore!’
Chappell: (laughing)
So when the guys were in Richmond,
would you typically go out with
them?
Landrum: It depended on
what was going on. Sometimes we
would go out, and meet somewhere
afterwards to eat or get a drink.
I had to be careful what I did
locally!
Chappell: Did you all hit
the Bee Hive (lounge) in the west
end of Richmond?
Landrum: Oh yeah,
definitely yeah!
Chappell: The Black Cat
(club)?
Landrum: The Black Cat,
yeah!
Chappell: The Caesar’s
Cellar…
Landrum: Yeah, the Caesar’s
Cellar, and the Howard Johnson’s.
They were all the main ones.
Chappell: I thought it was
neat when Ric would mention all
those Richmond places, during the
commercial interviews!
Landrum: Well, that’s
because we’d go to all of them!
What really surprised me, was that
he even knew about the Bee
Hive…because that was so far out
in the west end of Richmond. It
was only about five minutes from
where I lived!
Chappell: (laughing) I can
see where that might have
presented a problem for you, Rich!
Landrum: (laughing) I said,
‘Be quiet Ric…she’s gonna know
where I’m going!’ Yeah…that was
quite an experience.
Now, when we were in Raleigh or
Charlotte, it was a different
story. I kind of let loose then,
too! Around town, in my home
territory, I had to be careful
what I did.
Chappell: Having that
notoriety from TV could have its
advantages, and its disadvantages,
I’d imagine?
Landrum: It certainly did.
Being a personality, I wasn’t a
star, I was a TV personality…had
its real advantages.
You loved the thing of being
recognized, and people asking you
for your autographs. Going in
restaurants, and somebody always
saying, ‘Oh, don’t worry, it’s on
the house…we’re glad to have you.’
That was really neat.
Chappell: It had to be.
Landrum: But at the same
time, you had to be on you P’s and
Q’s.
Chappell: (laughs) That was
the downside!
Landrum: You knew you had
to present a certain image, and
that’s what they saw. They saw it
on TV and saw how you were, and
that’s what they had to see on the
outside…whether you felt like it
that day or not.
Chappell: For that reason,
I guess you couldn’t completely
let loose…even outside of
Richmond.
Landrum: (laughs) Well…
Chappell: (laughs) Okay,
you couldn’t let loose as often!
But, rightly or wrongly, I think
you were probably held to a higher
standard of behavior…just based on
your television role.
Landrum: You’re right. But
I think a lot of that went to the
guys too, but boy…they sure broke
loose!
Chappell: But they didn’t
give a damn!
Landrum: No, they didn’t
give a damn. I kept telling the
Hilton, that they made a mistake
by putting all of us on the same
floor. You know, split us up…and
you’ll have less trouble.
(laughs) But for some reason, that
never sunk in for the Hilton. But
just because of the nature of
being away, I always felt I could
do more in Raleigh or Charlotte as
opposed to Richmond…let loose a
little more.
Chappell: Any memorable Ric
Flair escapades you’d care to tell
us about?
Landrum: The real memorable
ones…I can’t tell you about David!
We’ll just let those go, you know?
Chappell: (laughs)
Understood!
Well, I’ve had several of the guys
tell me, Baron von Raschke and Bob
Caudle come immediately to mind,
that some people let loose at the
Crockett Christmas parties! Do you
remember those?
Landrum: Wow, yeah, I sure
do! They were fun times!
Unfortunately, they stopped after
a while because the Hilton
wouldn’t let them cook. The
Crockett’s wanted to do all the
cooking…David liked to cook. They
would cook everything for the
Christmas party.
They would have two different
rooms…one would be for the heels
and one was for the babyfaces.
Chappell: Since you were an
announcer, where did you end up?
Landrum: You see, I could
go back and forth. I had it good!
Chappell: (laughs) You were
a ‘tweener.’
Landrum: That’s right!
Sometimes, I really enjoyed being
with the heels, and sometimes I
enjoyed being with the babyfaces.
Depending on where I was, and what
I was doing.
Dressing rooms…I’d generally would
be on the heels side.
But, yeah, those parties were fun!
And I remember Raschke…he could
tie ‘em on. Go big red! (laughing)
Chappell: Yep, Mr. Nebraska
Cornhusker!
As busy as you all were, how did
you all squeeze in this Christmas
party?
Landrum: We taped two shows
for two weeks…we stayed over and
did Wednesday and Thursday where
we did two shows so we could be
off the following week for
Christmas.
Chappell: Okay, I see…
Landrum: The Christmas
party would be on Wednesday night,
and then you’d have to come back
on Thursday…you were either full
of vim and vigor, or hung
over---one or the other!
Chappell: (laughs)
Landrum: You just mentioned
Bob Caudle…even Caudle would let
loose!
Chappell: (laughing)
Bob…we’re looking for some video
of that!
Landrum: And an interesting
thing about Jim Raschke, he wore
glasses, but of course you never
saw that on the TV show. He could
hardly see two feet in front of
him. But in all fairness, despite
that, he was a true wrestler…a
true wrestler.
Chappell: No question about
it.
Rich, looking back at your time
with Jim Crockett Promotions from
when you started to when you left,
can you recall specific periods
that were the strongest and those
when the territory went into
decline?
Landrum: First off, leaving
was not my choice. I think
if George Scott had been there, I
would have still been there. Yeah,
I was costing them money, there
was no question about that…I knew
that.
But at some point in time, they
were willing to pay that money to
keep me. To fly me in and out,
after we moved to Charlotte.
Chappell: I believe you
said earlier that Jimmy Crockett
was cheap? That he didn’t even
want to pay for a prize for the
trivia contest…
Landrum: They didn’t call
him ‘Little Caesar’ for nothing!
Chappell: (laughing)
Did you deal any with his Dad, Jim
Crockett, Sr.?
Landrum: No, but I heard
nothing but wonderful things about
him. They always called him, ‘Mr.
Crockett.’
The guys that knew him, and worked
for him, often said there was no
comparison between Jimmy, Jr. and
his Dad.
Chappell: How would you
describe Jimmy, Jr.---other than
being tight with the purse
strings?
Landrum: (pauses) He was
aloof, and you never knew from one
week to the next how he was going
to be. Sometimes he would say ‘hi’
to you, and then there’d be times
that he’d just ignore you.
I kinda learned some things about
him, in a roundabout way, and one
of those things was that he liked
sailing. Particularly racing
sailing ships. So, I would
generally get into that
subject…and that would open him up
and we were fine.
But there were times where he’d
walk through that back door,
before we started the interviews,
he’d head into the client room…and
he never said anything to anybody
and you’d never see him again.
Chappell: Pretty strange
personality.
Landrum: It was…very
strange. And that was a shame,
because his Dad apparently had
been such a great promoter and so
fair to everyone. No matter who
you were, there was always an open
door policy with Mr. Crockett, Sr.
Chappell: I believe Mr.
Crockett, Sr. had a sign in his
office, ‘All Wrestlers Welcome,’
or something to that effect.
Landrum: Yeah, and it’s
kind of the way Vince McMahon, Sr.
was compared to his son.
And back then, Crockett, Sr. and
Vince, Sr. worked together…they
switched talent back and forth.
Chappell: They sure did, as
hard as it is to believe…based on
what happened later!
Landrum: I know!
Chappell: When Mr.
Crockett, Sr. passed away in 1973,
how did that affect the promotion?
Ric Flair and some other big names
came into the territory fairly
soon after that.
Landrum: That’s when you
started seeing more single main
event matches than you did tag
team. Tag teams had been a
stalwart thing…that’s what always
was the big draw---tag team
matches. Whether it was
preliminary, co-feature or a Main
Event…tag teams had always been
the thing.
Then, as George Scott came along
as the booker, he started making
the changes…but he did it
gradually. We saw more and more
single matches…and good single
matches.
Chappell: Definitely. Big
names brought in…some national
stars. And eventually, Ric Flair
won the singles World
Championship!
Landrum: Exactly. Of
course, once Flair won the
[World’s] Championship, he might
only be in for six weeks and then
he’d be out going someplace else.
He wasn’t constantly here like he
had been before. But that was just
part of the business…he had to do
it, you know?
When the decision was made that he
was gonna be Champion, that’s the
way it went.
Chappell: And as fans, it
was pretty cool that ‘our’ guy was
gonna be the World Champ! Even if
that meant we didn’t see him as
much.
Landrum: Sure, absolutely!
What is he…13 times World
Champion?
Chappell: I think the WWE
calls him a 16 time World
Champion…I lost track after he
passed (Harley) Race!
Landrum: (laughs)
Chappell: If you had to
name a MVP (Most Valuable Player)
during your years in Jim Crockett
Promotions, who would that person
be? Be it a wrestler, promoter,
announcer, etc.?
Landrum: You mean who would
have been the franchise?
Chappell: Yeah…that’s a
good way to phrase it.
Landrum: (pauses)
Hmmm…actually, I think it would
have been a couple of people, or a
couple of wrestlers.
Ah, Steamboat…
Chappell: Did Steamboat
have that big an impact on the
promotion?
Landrum: I think he really
did. As a babyface, he really did.
And I don’t say that just because
I liked him a lot, and we were
good friends.
Chappell: He certainly
provided Flair the perfect
opponent. They were both great in
their own right.
Landrum: They were, and
look at the matches they had.
Chappell: And the reverse
side of that is, would Flair have
been as good as he was as quickly
as he did it…without Steamboat as
an opponent?
Landrum: Probably not,
because I don’t think Paul Jones,
despite how good he was, would
ever have been able to put him
over like Steamboat did.
Chappell: Did you like Paul
Jones?
Landrum: Yeah, I liked
Paul. Paul was quiet…
Chappell: Oh really?
Landrum: (laughs) Believe
it or not! Very quiet…
Chappell: (laughs) Could
you repeat that, I’m not sure I
heard that correctly!
Seriously, Paul is a great friend
and supporter of the Gateway…and
has a wealth of knowledge that
we’re really fortunate to have
access to through him.
But, Paul ain’t quiet! Now…he’s
come out of his shell apparently!
Landrum: (laughs) That’s
what I’ve heard!
Paul was really very quiet back
then. Once in awhile he might
crack a joke, and that was about
it.
Chappell: Another franchise
player that was going strong back
when you were the announcer for
World Wide Wrestling, was Greg
Valentine. What were your
impressions about Greg. You
mentioned him several times in
passing already?
Landrum: As I said earlier,
Greg was in town for the show in
Colonial Heights last summer, and
he spoke at our Church that
Sunday…and did a great job. He
just had the people in the
congregation captivated.
David
Chappell, Rich Landrum, and Dick
Bourne at
Rich's show in Colonial Heights,
VA, August 2004.
Chappell: I thought Greg
was great, when he gave his
testimony to the crowd in Colonial
Heights after the matches the
night before. I had never seen
that side of Greg before.
Landrum: I had never seen
him like that either. And when I
found out that he was a born again
Christian, like myself, I went,
‘Who?’
Chappell: He told me that
when I interviewed him, and I had
the same reaction. But he
definitely had it on display that
night in Colonial Heights…it was
quite something to see.
Landrum: When he gave his
testimony that night, I actually
stepped behind one of the camera
scaffolds…because I started to
cry. He brought tears to my eyes,
because I knew how we were before.
When I went over to pick him up
for Church the next morning, he
was on the cell phone with his
wife in Florida, and I heard him
tell her, ‘I love you, honey.’ And
I never had heard him tell any of
his wives that before, because I
knew them all.
We were both tired from being up
with the show the night before,
and we were both trying to hold
our heads up, kinda like when we
used to party all night long. I
said, ‘Greg, this is kinda like
old times again.’ He said, ‘But,
we never got up to go to Church
then.’ I said, ‘You’re right…that
was the difference.’
Chappell: Greg was pretty
wild in those days, from what I
hear.
Landrum: You better believe
it!
That morning in our Sunday service
when he spoke and gave his
testimony, he said, ‘Folks, I’m
here to tell you…you think
wrestling is real? It’s not. It
never has been. Yeah, we get hurt,
because we haven’t figured out how
to defy gravity yet. But it’s not.
Although, I do not agree with what
wrestling has become today.’
And he gave such a testimony. I
told him to go 20 minutes, or take
what you need. An hour later he
was still going, and NO ONE had
gotten up to leave, to go to the
bathroom…nothing!
Chappell: Amazing…
Landrum: It was the same
way with Nikita Koloff at another
Church that same Sunday. They told
me Nikita had them right in the
palm of his hand.
Chappell: Because Greg was
so wild back in the day, it
probably gives his testimony today
even more credibility. Not to
mention that he was a heck of a
wrestler.
Landrum: And his Dad was a
heck of a wrestler…
Chappell: Oh…no doubt!
Landrum: He was ‘The
Champ.’
Chappell: Johnny ‘The
Champ’ Valentine.
Landrum: You talk about
somebody who made it look real.
Chappell: He had to be at
the very top of that list!
Landrum: He was. I
mean…when he hit, he hit. There
was no question that he hit you.
But like Greg, it is amazing how
many have a ministry of some sort
now…Steve Borden-Sting, Ted
DiBiase, Ivan, Nikita…
Chappell: And the Gateway’s
friend, George South, has to be
part of that list.
Landrum: (laughs) It was
funny that night in Colonial
Heights, you were there, George
was really running his mouth,
drawing heat. You remember?
Chappell: Oh yes…the ‘South
stall!’ He can’t seem to get his
ring jacket off very easily!
Landrum: I was trying to do
commentary, and Greg finally
turned around from the corner of
the ring and said, ‘If you don’t
shut up, he’s never gonna take
that jacket off and hook up!’ Greg
said, ‘Just be quiet…he’ll start
in a minute!’
Chappell: George is
something else!
Well, when you think back, how do
you compare the Crockett territory
with the other territories?
Landrum: It’s hard, because
then there was no competition.
When it was territorial, it was so
much better…it made all the
difference in the world. I don’t
think I heard anyone mention the
WWF as a challenger, you know?
They only came as far south as
Washington.
It was just kind of a gentleman’s
understanding that nobody
interfered with the other.
Chappell: And that lasted
for a long time.
Landrum: It did…it did.
Chappell: What was the one
Crockett angle that never
materialized like it should have?
Landrum: The Sunka and
Orndorff team, as I’ve said,
that’s one that I always thought
should have gone longer. I don’t
know what George was thinking, but
apparently, he saw it going
differently.
Maybe it wasn’t drawing as well as
they thought; I don’t know.
Chappell: What was the one
Crockett angle that was the best
in your opinion?
Landrum: The ‘Hat and the
Robe.’ That has to be one of the
top ones…
Chappell: When the Hat and
Robe happened, wasn’t that about
the time you started as an
announcer on Crockett TV?
Landrum: It was right after
I had started. They did it on the
Mid-Atlantic show, and of course
we used the footage over on our
show to help build the angle with
it.
That has to rank up there in the
top five, if there’s a top five.
If not number one. Actually, the
more I think about it, that’s the
one that stands out the most to
me.
Chappell: And to a lot of
others as well!
Landrum: Another one was
with Flair and Steamboat…the eye
thing.
Chappell: Oh yes.
Landrum: That was not as
long lived as the Hat and the
Robe, but it was a good one. And
of course, Ricky got his payback!
Chappell: Yep, and Ric lost
his clothes in the process!
Before that angle, Ric and Ricky
had gone round and round, and then
there was a little lull with them.
Do you remember the deal with Ric
rubbing Steamboat’s face on the
floor as a conscious effort by
George Scott to restart them
again? Because that incident and
Rick’s retaliation really got that
program red hot again.
Landrum: It did…it did. I
think they were looking for
another way to go for a while. You
can only ride a horse so far. And
that probably was the case.
PART NINE
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